Adrienne

[Adrienne]

Can you predict what thought will come next? No, absolutely not.
Can you prevent it from appearing if you don’t like it?
No, of course not.
Can you eliminate a thought once it has appeared?
There seems to be something that can stop an especially distressing thought, or at least not go down the route the thought is pointing to. This seeming ability was developed in the past year. But there is no-one doing it. And it doesn’t always work.

[Steffi]

Dear Adrienne!

> Where do thoughts come from?
>> No idea. They suddenly appear, as the sounds and the smells. There is a feeling that they are perceived/noticed first in a non-verbal form, and then they are somehow put into words – all done very quickly and effortlessly. The thoughts immediately pull away attention to their content, like a giant magnet, in a way that the content takes over from consciously registering that a thought has just appeared. When the thought/thought train is gone, the mind registers that there were thoughts – in retrospect. Thoughts are rarely caught red-handed, in the act.

Yes, this is true. You can´t catch thoughts red-handed. They are past when they were recognised. Is there a difference between thoughts and mind? What is the mind?

> Where do thoughts go?
>> They just evaporate and disappear from the mind. If the mind wants to keep hold of a thought, it will keep repeating it again and again, until it is dropped. Sometimes thoughts can be felt “under the surface” so to speak – not conscious enough to be put into words, but conscious enough to generate sensations in the body (feelings).

Whom is a thought conscious?

> Can you eliminate a thought once it has appeared?
>> There seems to be something that can stop an especially distressing thought, or at least not go down the route the thought is pointing to. This seeming ability was developed in the past year. But there is no-one doing it. And it doesn’t always work.<

What is that something?

[Steffi]

October 3rd is a public holiday in Germany (Day of German Unity) and traditionally this is the day on which the Allrad Stammtisch meets in a sandpit. So I’ll be offline from Wednesday to Sunday 🙂 Who else has plans for the long weekend?

[Adrienne]

Can you make the decision not to think?
The decision would appear in awareness on its own. Not „my“ decision. The mind is so quiet now that there wouldn’t be any thought for a while – but then a thought would come, unstoppable. Through meditation, the mind can be trained to have fewer and fewer thoughts, until all is quiet. Intention to meditate or to train the mind appears on its own. Everything just appears in awareness by itself.

[Adrienne]

What is the difference between mind and thoughts? What is the mind?
Good question. What appears here is that the mind is the functioning of the brain. That there are conscious and unconscious mind processes. Thoughts appear in consciousness. The body seems to operate from the unconscious mind. The thoughts that appear in consciousness also come from the unconscious mind. They are there for all the unconscious subminds to see. All this, of course, comes from books and not from direct experience. In DE there is no brain, no mind, only thoughts that appear from nowhere. In DE there is no difference between thoughts and mind. However, it is clear that processes like breathing, blinking, or the heart beating, happen unconsciously. So logic suggests that there must be an unconscious mind, that thoughts and the mind are not the same.

[Adrienne]

What is it that can stop thoughts following a distressing route?
It is an intention to be more positive. This intention came from the unconscious mind because the conditioning was changed by a book the bodymind read.
Also, thoughts are somehow more easily let go of as „only thoughts“ by other thoughts.

[Adrienne]

For whom is a thought conscious?
What is it that hears thoughts? It is not another thought. Thoughts appear in awareness, which is able to detect the appearance of phenomena. Awareness is not „me“ because „me“ is a thought and awareness is not a thought. Awareness is definitely here though. It is inseparable from the phenomena that appear in it, but it is not merely experiencing. It is also the capacity, the openness for these phenomena, the potential for experiencing.

[Steffi]

[quote quote=1478]Can you make the decision not to think? The decision would appear in awareness on its own. Not “my” decision. The mind is so quiet now that there wouldn’t be any thought for a while – but then a thought would come, unstoppable. Through meditation, the mind can be trained to have fewer and fewer thoughts, until all is quiet. Intention to meditate or to train the mind appears on its own. Everything just appears in awareness by itself.[/quote]

Dear Adrienne!

Could it be that there is the expectation that with seeing through the self illusion all thoughts (should) cease?

🙂 Steffi

[Steffi]

Dear Adrienne!

From your answers and your inquiries, I gather that there is still a lot that needs to be explored. Daily 1:1 guiding through the self illusion would probably be a good idea. But unfortunately I can’t do that here in the Open Fetter Group. I could ask around to see if someone from our group could do it, if you like. Another idea is Christiane’s book “How to see through the self illusion”. This is now also available in printed form. You could work through it and we could talk about it at the group meeting…

🙂 Steffi

[Steffi]

[quote quote=1481]For whom is a thought conscious? What is it that hears thoughts? It is not another thought. Thoughts appear in awareness, which is able to detect the appearance of phenomena. Awareness is not “me” because “me” is a thought and awareness is not a thought. Awareness is definitely here though. It is inseparable from the phenomena that appear in it, but it is not merely experiencing. It is also the capacity, the openness for these phenomena, the potential for experiencing.[/quote]

So what is awareness?

[Adrienne]

Hi Steffi

I have ordered Christiane’s book.

Adrienne

[Adrienne]

Hi Steffi

Please tell me more about the daily 1:1. How does it work? Can’t you be my guide? How much does it cost? And what makes you think that I still have a lot to work through?

There is no expectation here that thoughts should cease. It is just my own experience that the mind is getting quieter and quieter.

What is awareness? The way I see it, it is an openness, a receptivity to phenomena.

Adrienne

[Adrienne]

Hi Steffi

There is a strong feeling sometimes that something is deeply wrong here, that things are not okay. It is a deep dissatisfaction with everything. It is a thought and an unpleasant sensation in the body. It is one manifestation of the I belief. On the other hand, there is an equally strong belief in no self. And in between, frustration.

Adrienne

[Adrienne]

Hi Steffi

I am doing Christiane’s exercises. I have done these many times before, and I have seen what had to be seen. The only new thing so far is that it is clear now that awareness is a concept and it is not in direct experience. Hearing a sound is the same as knowing a sound. In fact, there is only the sound.

Adrienne

[Steffi]

Dear Adrienne!

And what makes you think that I still have a lot to work through?

I say this because I would have a lot of questions based on your answers in the inquiry. It would be good to look at all of them. Also because you say you have already done all these exercises from Christiane’s book and yet something is still hanging, I could imagine that in a more intensive and regular exchange this could perhaps be found.

Please tell me more about the daily 1:1. How does it work?

This is my guiding offer: https://stromeintritt.org/en/guiding-offer/

There is a strong feeling sometimes that something is deeply wrong here, that things are not okay. It is a deep dissatisfaction with everything. It is a thought and an unpleasant sensation in the body. It is one manifestation of the I belief. On the other hand, there is an equally strong belief in no self. And in between, frustration.

Wow, that’s good, Adrienne! That frustration shows up when you inquire into your assumptions and they have nothing to do with reality. You already see that the self doesn’t exist and you try to replace the old belief in the self with the belief in the not-self. However, we don’t want to develop a new belief.
So the situation is that something clearly doesn’t fit together fundamentally. And the brain now tries everything to somehow balance out this state of tension.
If you do the inquiry and are absolutely sure that there is no self to be found, say out loud: “There is no self!”
How does that feel? Is there any resistance to saying it, or does it already feel familiar?

Please note that I am only here from Monday to Thursday.
Steffi

[Autor]

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