The Illusion of Self – My Dialogue

What happens when you actually look for the “I” that seems to think, decide and control?

This is the original dialogue in which I investigated the self illusion and eventually saw through the First Fetter.

This is the dialogue between Christiane and me, taken from the Facebook group In diesem Leben erwachen – including all spelling mistakes and forgotten words.

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More background on the self illusion and how to investigate it can be found here:

🔹Seeing Through the Self Illusion

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I met Christiane Michelberger in 2014. We were both taking the same online course. In the course forum and Facebook group, we talked about blogging. Christiane had just started her blog Unterwegs mit Buddha.

I can still remember her survey among the course participants about the name of her blog.

But we had something else in common: we both liked the nomadic life! At the time, I was living in a motorhome, and Christiane spent the summer months in a caravan. So there was always something to talk about.

On 8 December 2016, two years later, the course had long since ended, but we were still in touch. On that day, I joined Christiane’s Facebook group In diesem Leben erwachen, and my guidance through the Ten Fetters began. Christiane had previously discovered Liberation Unleashed and seen through the self illusion.

At the time, I was travelling in Portugal, where we were spending the winter. I was walking along the shore of a reservoir with our dog Lucy and looking into the first question.

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Foundation for the First Fetter

🔹 Seeing Through the Self Illusion

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08.12.2016

Dear Steffi, how nice to meet you here! A warm welcome 🙂

In this group, live guidance takes place as chats. You can follow them and see how guidance like this works. Please don’t reply in these one-to-one dialogues.

In the files, you’ll also find texts about the Ten Fetters, and here you can learn more about what this group is about.

11.12.2016

Thank you. I’m already very curious.

29.12.2016

Hi Christiane! Thank you for this group. I’ve read some of the guidings and the texts you’ve linked. But I’m still missing a concrete hint about how and where I can start. Have a nice day 😀

Dear Steffi, would you like to jump straight in? Then just have a look. If I ask you to point to the fridge, it’s clear what you’re pointing to. What do you point to if I ask you to point to the self? What does the word “I” refer to?

Hi Christiane! Thanks for the quick reply. I’m not sure whether I can reply just as quickly. Spontaneously, I would point to myself… But you wrote to the self… For me, the word I refers to the sum of my experiences, abilities, thoughts, feelings and perhaps also everything that other people see in me. So the I is somehow a combination of many different parts. Parts that are constantly changing. I don’t know if that’s already my answer. I’ll think about it a little longer. ☺

Very good, Steffi! Exactly, the I is the name for the sum of everything that is experienced and has been experienced. Does this I exist as an entity in its own right?

Yes and no. For a brief moment, it forms a unit. As soon as a new thought or a new experience is added, it changes a little.

Describe the change. What does the I look like and how does it change with each new experience?

I need a little more time for that…

Of course, Steffi. Most people reply about once a day because you really need time to look. The most important thing is that you really look and don’t think about it. Look for the I as if you were looking for your key in the motorhome.

Greetings to the sunny south 🙂

30.12.2016

I don’t know how to do that. Just look and not think about it. If the I is the sum of everything that is experienced and has been experienced, how am I supposed to look for it in the material world like a key? The only material thing that I am is my body. I can see it, touch it… but it’s only one part of the I. The rest is thoughts, feelings, abilities… I can’t find them in the outside world. They don’t just exist inside me. How am I supposed to find a thought without thinking?

Hi Steffi, those are good questions 🙂. We have the natural ability to observe, which sometimes gets, so to speak, its own domain with its own name, the “observer.”

This natural ability is used when investigating the self illusion.

Try it with thoughts. Sit down comfortably and notice how one thought after another arises.

Where do thoughts come from and where do they go?

Can you know which thought will come next, and if you don’t like it, can you prevent it from arising?

Can a thinker be found?

Love, Christiane

OK, I often do that when I meditate. But I’ll do it again later and look very closely.

I spent a beautiful winter in Portugal and a summer in Brandenburg. And Christiane took a break due to illness, so my investigation of the self illusion didn’t continue until June 2017.

21.06.2017

Hi Christiane! You’re back and I’d like to continue our conversation here.

Where do thoughts come from?

There are different kinds of thoughts. Some simply appear out of nowhere. They are memories, fears, daydreams. They are suddenly there and if I don’t pay any further attention to them, they disappear just as suddenly. But I have no influence over the thoughts at all. The only influence I have is not to pay any further attention to them.

If I pay attention to them, they lead me away and take me into their world. I relive memories, or something like that. I get caught up in fears and see a terrible future. Then I’m agitated and find it difficult to let go of the thought again. The thoughts then tell me a story, as if I were watching a film. A very well-made film that is very exciting and gripping. But I have no influence over the content. At most, I can try to stop and let the thoughts go.

And then there are thoughts that I think more or less deliberately. When I’m thinking about something. Because I want to solve a problem or think about the day in the morning. Here, many thoughts are predictable. But surprising thoughts also appear in the form of ideas that then help me.

With the first kind of thoughts, there is no thinker. I have more of a feeling that the thoughts think me. Or they’re simply there, without anyone consciously thinking.

With the other kind of thoughts, I do feel like the thinker because I am consciously thinking. 🙂

Hi Steffi, nice to have you back. 😊

Thank you for looking so carefully. The whole purpose of this investigation is to look at what is actually there and what we add in thought. What is actually there are the things we can perceive with the five senses. The rest takes place in the cyber-reality of thoughts, which you described beautifully.

Play with thoughts a little more. Relax a little and notice how one thought after another arises.

Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look at what can be perceived with the five senses.

Can you know what the next thought will be, and if you don’t like it, can you prevent it from appearing?

Think a particular thought and look carefully. How does thinking a particular thought work?

Is there a thinker at any point? The feeling alone isn’t enough. The thinker has to actually be perceivable. 😊

Love!

22.06.2017

Ok, thoughts don’t smell, I can’t taste them, I can’t hear them. I can’t see or touch them either. Somehow they aren’t real. No bodies, no clouds. Somehow they aren’t there at all. When I try to imagine a thought, I can’t. They have no shape. Gosh, that’s scary. Because thoughts are still constantly there. But how can something be there that doesn’t exist?

I don’t know where thoughts come from. They’re simply there. When one thought goes, another thought comes. But I can’t see or hear where they come from or where they go.

No, I never know which thought will come next. I have no influence over that at all. Even if I make an effort to think about something specific, there are still other thoughts that simply do whatever they want. I can’t stop thoughts from coming.

What is a particular thought? No matter how hard I try, I can’t even think a normal thought. I can remember something. Then it’s as if I’m looking at a photograph. But it’s not a thought, more like a scene. Thoughts seem much more to simply come by themselves. I can’t make thoughts. Man, this is giving me a headache 😉

No, when I really look at it, there is no thinker. The thoughts don’t come from me.

Wonderful, Steffi. Yes, it can feel a little unsettling when you look closely. 🙂 But it has always been this way, you’re just noticing it now.

There is no thinker, and thoughts come and go without asking permission.

Memories are more thoughts. They come in the form of mental impressions, images, sounds. Nobody else can perceive them. Thoughts can roughly be divided into two categories: words and mental images.

You’ve seen very clearly that thoughts aren’t “things”. You can’t touch them, they have no substance. They are there, because they can be perceived. But they have no “thingness”. Incidentally, this applies to everything, but it’s easiest to see with thoughts.

I have a little experiment for you.

Close your eyes and imagine several strawberries. See their colour, the green stems, smell their scent. Take one in your hand and look at it more closely, in every detail. Then pull off the stem and put one in your mouth. Taste the delicious flavour.

OPEN YOUR EYES.

Where are the remaining strawberries?

Love, Christiane

07.07.2017

I’m quite good at imagining strawberries. They really do appear. I remember the last time I ate some. After a while, I can actually smell them. I also know what they feel like. I can’t taste them quite as well. My dog Lucy must have eaten the remaining strawberries. Anyway, they’re not there anymore 😉

Haha 🙂 Were the strawberries there before?

No, at least not “for real”.

08.07.2017

Great, Steffi 😊 And that’s exactly what our “conversation” is about: Is there, for real, an “I” that thinks, experiences, acts, chooses and decides, or is it simply an idea like the imagined strawberries?

To find out, you just need to look. If something can be perceived with the five senses, it is there “for real”. If not, it’s simply an idea, like Santa Claus or the Sandman.

Play with this:

Hold one hand in front of you with the palm facing upwards. Then turn the palm downwards – and back again. Keep doing this and watch like a hawk: Is there anyone or anything that gives the command to turn the hand and makes it happen, something that controls the movement?

Love from the caravan on the Baltic Sea, Christiane

17.08.2017

Hi Christiane! Sorry, you’re always there for a conversation and I haven’t been in touch for so long. The last few weeks have been quite exhausting and filled with lots of thoughts that have pushed me back and forth. I know that thoughts come and go, that I don’t even think them and that I shouldn’t really pay any further attention to them. But I can’t do it. The more I try, the worse it gets. I had a decision to make that was completely clear at first. And the more I thought about it, the less clear it became again. As if clouds were moving across an actually clear sky. Until the clarity disappears completely.

But that doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten about it. I’ve done this exercise with the hand again and again and tried to figure it out. I’ve repeatedly observed everything about my body. It’s scary. The body basically does whatever it wants too. I tell it: Turn the hand. And then the hand turns. Or it doesn’t turn. Or it turns without me having done or said anything. Everything works like that. I can’t control anything. Breathing happens by itself. The heart beats by itself. Walking happens by itself. If I try to control any of it, suddenly everything works worse, more slowly. If I could control the body, it probably wouldn’t work anymore. I can’t keep everything “running” at once. So everything happens completely automatically. Without me finding anyone, not even myself, or anything that controls the whole thing.

But I can’t figure out how it works. If it isn’t me, who is looking out of my eyes? If it isn’t me, who says what I think? Somehow I can’t believe that there is no I. If the I is only a fantasy – who thought it up?

18.08.2017

Dear Steffi, I have the impression that you’re continuing to look quite independently. Nice to hear from you again 🙂

You’ve worked it out correctly, everything happens by itself. And when we interfere, it usually becomes much less smooth, as with your decision. Of course, that’s completely contrary to how we’ve always thought and felt. Nobody at the wheel… that can feel scary. The fact is that nobody was ever at the wheel. The I is something like Santa Claus. If you were taught to believe in him, he was once real to you. And at some point you found out that he doesn’t exist at all. He was simply an idea.

The I is an assumption in exactly the same way. How it arises is fascinating. I have an English-language article about it, I’ll send it to you in a PM.

“If it isn’t me, who is looking out of my eyes? If it isn’t me, who says what I think? Somehow I can’t believe that there is no I. If the I is only a fantasy – who thought it up?”

The question is: Does there have to be someone who looks at all? Or does looking also happen by itself, like walking, turning the hand and everything else?

Does there have to be someone who thinks, or does thinking also happen by itself?

I’ve made a little video about hearing on the Baltic Sea beach, where we stay in summer. Is there someone who hears?

In the Heard, Only the Heard

28.08.2017

“The question is: Does there have to be someone who looks at all? Or does looking also happen by itself, like walking, turning the hand and everything else?

Does there have to be someone who thinks, or does thinking also happen by itself?”

I find it very difficult to separate thinking and I. I’ve actually already found out that thoughts come and go and that I don’t think them. The body also moves without me controlling or initiating it. Nevertheless, I still have the impression that I think some thoughts – when I’m thinking about something. Or that I do initiate some movements. I’ll keep looking. It’s somehow beyond my imagination how looking or hearing can happen if there’s nobody who looks or hears.

I’ve read the Wannabehappy Trojan article. Yes, somehow it all seems quite logical to me. Because it’s the answer to many worries and problems that only arise through an I. But I can’t understand what life, my life, without an I would be like.

I watched the video. Thank you, Christiane! It’s nice to hear your voice for once… 🙂

I had to listen to it a few times before I understood what it was about. It’s true. I hear a sound. At first, there is only hearing. What is heard and the one who hears only come later. I notice this best when I hear a sound I don’t know. Then there is only hearing. Only when it is recognised does the name of what is heard get added. So, “wave”. At first, I only hear the sound. A rushing or splashing. Then immediately there is: waves. And then, “I hear waves.”

The sound is neither inside nor outside. It’s everywhere. There is no boundary between the sound and me. Yesterday I was sitting in the grass and heard a sound. There was simply hearing. But when I discovered the cricket that was making the sound, there was also “what was heard” – chirping. The cricket was there “for real”, unlike the strawberries. The sound was also there “for real”. And how do I now find out whether an I was also there “for real”?

Steffi, you’re doing really well! ❤ It contradicts all the assumptions we’ve had so far that everything should happen without an I.

How do you know the cricket was there “for real”? Can you find the I just as “for real”?

Love, Christiane

01.09.2017

Dear Christiane, I think I’ve found the I. When I look for my I, I always end up in my head. That means the I must be somewhere there… So are my thoughts my I? I don’t think so, because I have no influence over my thoughts at all. They do what they want. If I were my thoughts, then I could control them, but that’s not the case. It’s more the other way round. So it must be that I am in my thoughts. My thoughts, or rather the thoughts, think me up. It’s somehow a little crazy that my thoughts, on the one hand, think up my I and, on the other hand, can think about the fact that this I doesn’t exist at all.

When I think about the cricket again, I notice that the cricket exists because I can see it. The sound exists because I can hear it. But there is no I that hears. There is only hearing. Thoughts can’t hear anything. The ear can hear. And it simply hears. All by itself. There really is no I. Now I finally understand the comparison with Santa Claus. He was just made up. A nice story that we keep telling. Just like the I. But you get rid of the imagined Santa Claus pretty quickly once you realise that he’s only a story. The I seems to be stuck somewhere deeper. Because even though I now know that the I is only a story, I’m not rid of it.

Dear Steffi, recognising that the I is a story is the first important step. ❤

“When I look for my I, I always end up in my head. That means the I must be somewhere there.”

Good. Just look. It’s best to start with bodily sensations. Is what you suspect to be the I connected with a bodily sensation? What do you feel there and where exactly are the bodily sensations?

What makes it clear that this is the I?

Love, Christiane

Christiane, thank you for the new task. Could you add what exactly you mean by bodily sensations?

Bodily sensations are, for example, a feeling of pressure, warmth or cold, tension or relaxation, tightness, openness, tingling, numbness. 🙂

11.09.2017

Hi Christiane! This is the most difficult task so far. I have to admit that I haven’t managed to find out where bodily sensations actually are. Unlike with thoughts at the beginning, I don’t even have the feeling here that bodily sensations and a possible I could somehow be connected. Bodily sensations are simply there. Sometimes they aren’t even noticed, or only very late. Like thoughts, but also very different, they come and go again. Sometimes they’re pleasant, sometimes unpleasant. Sometimes they cause something – for example, putting on a jacket when it’s cold. That happens completely automatically. So cold is perceived and something is put on. But an I that makes, steers, controls or can end the bodily sensations? No, there isn’t one!

Great, Steffi. 🙂 Bodily sensations come and go just like thoughts – or the weather. There is nothing controlling them. And perhaps the reason you didn’t find any bodily sensations where it felt like there was an I is that there is nothing there?

Today I have a trip into nature for you. Where are you at the moment?

Notice how everything moves: the clouds, the wind, perhaps the rain, the trees and bushes, animals and people. Who moves all of it? Can you discover a general manager who organises and directs the whole thing?

Then feel how your breath moves, your body, your feet. What moves the body? The breath? Who makes sure that everything works properly? What controls the liver, the blood, the intestines?

Where is the boundary between you and everything else?

Love, Christiane

15.09.2017

Hi Christiane! Yes, there is nothing in the bodily sensations that feels like an I.

We’re in Lemwerder on the Weser at the moment. It was very stormy here yesterday. Clouds, rain, trees, bushes are moved by the wind. But nobody moves the wind. It’s simply there. Animals and people move by themselves. From within themselves. At least I can’t discover anyone controlling them from outside. They aren’t puppets or anything like that.

My breath comes and goes by itself. There is nobody there – no I either – controlling the organs and directing the blood. The body functions completely by itself.

Where is the boundary between me and everything else? Good question! What exactly do you mean by boundary and how do I find out?

Have a nice weekend 🙂

Wonderful, Steffi. 🙂 How does it feel that there is nothing controlling all of this?

Where is the boundary between what is seen and seeing? Where does what is seen end and seeing begin? Have a look.

And where does the sound end and hearing begin?

Where does feeling end and what is felt begin?

You can do the same with smelling and tasting.

Love, Christiane

19.09.2017

Dear Christiane!

“How does it feel that there is nothing controlling all of this?”

It doesn’t feel special. Actually, it doesn’t feel like anything. I can’t discover any particular feelings in myself when I think about it. That there is nothing controlling all of this isn’t a surprising realisation. Who or what would control everything? God? Weather gods? A mystical power? I’ve never believed in God. To me, God is like the I – a story.

Trying to find this boundary I’m supposed to look for – that’s difficult. I’m still not entirely clear how I’m supposed to do it. I’ve looked, listened, tasted and so on so often and so much now that I’ve become quite restless.

Does what is seen exist without seeing? Does what is heard exist without hearing? If there is something like a boundary – although I don’t think boundary is the right word then – it’s like this: seeing happens and then – incredibly quickly – the brain makes “what is seen” out of it by giving what is seen a name. Like the waves in the film – where at first only splashing is heard and then the term “wave” appears in thought. But is that what you mean?

If that’s the case, then a boundary can’t be seen with the eyes…

Dear Steffi, exactly. What is seen and seeing belong together. One cannot exist without the other. There is no boundary between them.

When “looking”, you simply use the five senses as you normally do. So you look, or listen, or feel touch… Everything that we can’t perceive with the five senses is a fantasy and only occurs in thoughts.

Today I’ve brought you an exercise for the body. Have fun with it, it’s very pleasant. There’s an audio link at the end. It’s easiest to do the exercise with the audio and answer the questions afterwards.

And one little tip: It would be good if you wrote at least every other day now. You think a lot about these things and draw the right conclusions. But now it’s important that you actually experience with the senses what you’ve already worked out through reasoning. The best way to do that is to investigate the questions directly through perception with the five senses and use this kind of perception again and again.

Body exercise

Sit or lie down for about 15 minutes.

Pay attention only to the raw sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images.

Can you tell how big the body is?

Does the body have a weight or circumference?

In current experience, does your body have a shape or form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothes?

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

How many toes do you have?

Are you male or female?

Do you have a name?

Where is the I in the body?

Is there an inside or outside? If there is an inside – inside what exactly?

If there is an outside, outside what exactly?

What does the word/label “body” actually refer to?

Is anything missing when you experience yourself like this?

Have fun!

20.09.2017

Dear Christiane! I’ve just done the exercise and I’m writing down my answers to your questions now.

“Can you tell how big the body is?”

No.

“Does the body have a weight or circumference?”

In some places there is a slight feeling of pressure. Most of the time, though, it feels very light. I can’t detect or feel a circumference.

“In current experience, does your body have a shape or form?”

No. I can’t feel one.

“Is there a boundary between the body and the clothes?”

No. I can’t feel that either.

“Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?”

There is a feeling of pressure here and there, but I can’t feel a clear boundary.

“How many toes do you have?”

I can’t feel my toes.

“Are you male or female?”

No idea.

“Do you have a name?”

No.

“Where is the I in the body?”

I don’t know. There is nothing in the body.

“Is there an inside or outside? If there is an inside – inside what exactly?

If there is an outside, outside what exactly?”

I can’t feel an inside or outside. When feeling, I couldn’t even say what that is supposed to be.

“What does the word/label ‘body’ actually refer to?”

When I think the word “body” (it’s not so easy to leave that out), a figure appears in my mind’s eye that resembles my reflection, but isn’t as concrete. I don’t feel my, or the, body. Only a little pressure here and there, or movement – tension, relaxation.

“Is anything missing when you experience yourself like this?”

No, nothing.

21.09.2017

Great, Steffi. ❤ The word “body” refers only to the individual sensations that appear here and there and are then filled in to make a complete body, like a “connect-the-dots” picture. Otherwise, based on feeling alone, we can say very little about the body and not even where it actually ends. And yet nothing is missing. 🙂

What does the word “I” refer to? If I ask you to point to your I, where do you point?

Love, Christiane

Spontaneously, my index finger lands on my breastbone.

Great. Now feel there. Is there a particular feeling or anything else that tells you that the I is located there?

I feel movement there. Up and down. Sometimes a slight pressure. And warmth. That’s all.

What would you consider evidence that the I, which is assumed to think, decide, experience and act, is located there?

Nothing I feel there is evidence of the I for me.

Then search the whole body. 🙂 When you think, “I, Steffi”, does a feeling appear anywhere? If so, investigate whether the I might be there. Look everywhere, including behind the ears and at the back of the neck.

Love, Christiane

22.09.2017

Dear Christiane! It took a little longer. I wanted to find a moment when I had enough peace and quiet for this task. I’ve just done it now. I lay down and searched with my eyes closed.

When I think “I, Steffi”, no feeling appears anywhere. Nothing appears at all.

I looked everywhere in the body anyway.

I feel tingling here and there, especially in the feet and fingers. Pressure, tension and relaxation. Movement, air in the nose, warmth behind the ears, tension in the neck, some places I can’t really feel at all. There’s a pulsing in the head and somehow there’s also a great emptiness to be felt. That’s somehow everything I feel.

Is the I somewhere in there? The more I search for it, the less I know what I’m supposed to be looking for… no, it’s worse. Somehow my thoughts are trying to stop me from searching. On the one hand, I found nothing but bodily sensations in the exercise, but then I suddenly “forgot” what the I even is and I really want to go back up and read it again. Isn’t the I perhaps the tingling in the fingers… or the breath… I don’t even know how to describe it. After the exercise there was clarity that I hadn’t found anything in the body. And then suddenly a thousand thoughts come and confuse everything again. Do you know that brief moment of panic when you’re standing outside the door and can’t find your key?

Dear Steffi, and now the key is gone… ❤

The thoughts will sound the alarm because they can’t make sense of what has been found. They’re there to provide security, and as soon as something unexpected happens, the alarm goes off and the thoughts search frantically for a solution.

How does it feel for you to find absolutely nothing that you could call an I?

Love, Christiane

I don’t know… unsettled…

Yes, it is strange when something we firmly assumed existed turns out to be completely undetectable. ❤

Experiment with this:

Stand up, walk five steps in one direction, turn around, and walk the five steps back.

Is there someone who walks? Who or what coordinates the muscles, lifts the legs and puts them down again? How does the decision to turn right or left happen?

Love, Christiane

Nobody coordinates or decides… It just happens. I don’t know how the decision happens. I don’t even perceive the moment when the decision is made. I think it isn’t a decision at all. So there is neither someone who decides nor a decision. It’s all completely random…

23.09.2017

Very good, Steffi 🙂 Can you find anything that moves the legs and makes sure that both feet don’t leave the ground at the same time? Walk slowly again. What coordinates the walking, what controls it?

Love!

24.09.2017

Hi Christiane! I’m driving along the motorway in the rain right now. So I can’t walk at the moment. Maybe you have an exercise I can do sitting down? I’m the passenger… I’ll do the exercise with the legs later…

Love

Being a passenger is one of my favourite situations for looking. 😃

All kinds of images pass by – observe how they are all named.

You hear the sound of your truck, the sounds of other vehicles, perhaps a motorbike now and then, the wind from driving, rain on the windscreen. Here too, everything is named.

The same happens with bodily sensations that arise through touch. The seat, the vibration, the bumps in the road.

Perhaps there is also something to smell or taste?

Let the sensory impressions and their labels pass by for a while.

Then replace the automatic labels with a word that is closest to the direct experience.

Seeing another car: shape and colour

Hearing engine noise: sound

Feeling the vibrations while driving: sensations

Smelling the coffee from the thermos: smell

Chocolate in the mouth: taste.

Let me know what you experience.

Love, Christiane

Oh, this is interesting…

Thank you. I’ll get back to you later.

It’s not that easy to describe when the labels are supposed to be left out. I basically only see lines then. From very short to infinitely long. Sometimes wide, sometimes narrow. Straight, curved, bent. Some connected in such a way that they form areas. Some barely stand out from their surroundings. Others glow. Or form a strong contrast to what’s around them. Everything is filled with a droning sound. Overlaid by a deeper droning. I hear rattling. Irregular. High. Sometimes louder, sometimes quieter. I feel tingling in my legs. Sometimes in my feet too. Every now and then my body bounces in the seat. Moves back and forth. Under my hand I occasionally feel something very soft, warm. My hand moves gently over it. I taste something very sweet. It feels firm, but also soft. I hear a cracking sound.

Is that what you wanted to know?

Great, Steffi! Yes, those are the direct perceptions. When you’re driving again tomorrow, have a look at which direct perceptions create the I.

Love, Christiane 🙂

26.09.2017

Dear Christiane! I wasn’t feeling very well yesterday. That’s why I’m only replying today. I don’t know how I’m supposed to find that out. Everything I perceive is somehow already there. Everything that happens, happens by itself. Without me having to do anything.

Dear Steffi, some days just aren’t so good, that’s okay. ❤

Is there an I anywhere in a particular form or shape that could do anything?

Look as if you were looking for a squirrel that had slipped into your living area.

Love, Christiane

It seems absurd to look for the I in this way. That’s the first thing my thoughts do with it. I do it anyway and keep getting distracted by thoughts… When I look for the I with the five senses, outside the body (I didn’t find it inside the body either), I can’t see it. It can’t be seen around me. So I can’t touch it either. I can’t smell or taste it. Actually, I don’t even know what I’m supposed to be looking for. At any rate, there isn’t a second Steffi sitting next to me whom I can touch, smell or hear. And she hasn’t hidden under the bed either. I feel pretty stupid for even looking there. I can’t find the I in the material world. Not outside my body. But not inside either. At least not with the five senses. There are only thoughts in which an I appears.

Further up you wrote, “We have the natural ability to observe, which sometimes gets, so to speak, its own domain with its own name, the ‘observer.’

This natural ability is used when investigating the self illusion.”

How do I know that this observer isn’t the I?

OK. I can’t find that one for real either…

😃 🤗 Excellent, Steffi. Neither I nor observer can be found. The I exists only as a thought.

Perhaps you’ll be driving a longer distance again… whenever an I-thought appears, have a look.

What can this I-thought do?

Can it think by itself or choose or decide anything? Does it control movements? Does it see and hear, perceive touch, can it taste or smell?

We’re preparing our caravan for winter at the weekend and then we’ll temporarily be in the flat in Hamburg.

Love, Christiane

We’re driving to Greece at the moment… So I’ll have plenty to observe…

Hey, great! Where are you now?

In Dietfurt an der Altmühl on the Main-Danube Canal.

28.09.2017

Dear Christiane! I find it difficult to identify I-thoughts as such. Everything happens so quickly, is over again so quickly – it becomes ungraspable so quickly… which is also because there hasn’t been enough peace and quiet over the last two days to look closely, and because I don’t really know exactly which thoughts I’m supposed to be watching for… Do you have a tip for me? 🙂

Dear Steffi, yes, it happens quickly. Take individual situations, for example taking Lucy for a walk. Thoughts like “I see…”, “I walk…” will certainly appear, perhaps “I’m tired”…

What is meant by the word “I”? Can the thought “I walk” do the walking? Or the seeing? Or the feeling tired?

Love and have a good journey! Christiane ❤

02.10.2017

Dear Christiane! Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to reply yet. I simply didn’t have an opportunity to write. Over the last few days we’ve driven across the Alps to Venice. I did have time to look. Ok, I’ll try to put it into words: I have the impression that I live in two different “states”. In one of them, I have the feeling of being completely here. I can almost hear the grass grow. There’s a kind of clarity. And hardly any thoughts. And then there’s this other “state” again, in which I’ve somehow “disappeared”. I suddenly startle out of it, with a second of panic. Like waking from an unpleasant dream. And just like with a dream, I can then only vaguely remember what happened in the moments before. As if I hadn’t really been there at all. And then there is a feeling, or a thought, that says I should let go. But I don’t know what.

So I can only really observe thoughts in one of these “states”. I thought my thoughts make the I. But I can’t figure it out. I-thoughts always come after the experience. First there is walking, seeing… I walk down a street and perceive all kinds of things. Without any thoughts at all. Then suddenly the thought comes, “I walk”, “I walk down the street”, “I see a red sign”, “I see a stop sign”. This thought “I see” can neither make the seeing happen nor stop it. Seeing simply happens. Always. Thoughts seem to have the job of describing everything that is seen. Putting it into words so that it can be said. But they always do it afterwards. They describe everything that happens, has happened and perhaps will happen. They turn what is experienced into words. But what is experienced is there without thoughts too. It doesn’t need words. But only when I package the experience into words in thought can I write it down later, have a conversation, communicate. At least I think so. So do thoughts have something to do with language? When I think “I’m tired” – and I thought that quite often during the long drives – or “my back hurts”… then that’s actually just a collection of bodily sensations from which thoughts then make “I’m tired”, or something similar. Thoughts make the bodily sensations communicable. That way I can tell Olaf that I’m tired. But I don’t know who or what the I in the sentence, or in the communication, is. I can find the bodily sensations that lead to tiredness. But not the I.

I have to admit that all of this is increasingly confusing me.

Greetings from Italy 🙂

03.10.2017

Dear Steffi, warm greetings to Venice, although you’re probably almost in Florence by now? Siena is a great city.

What is confusing you?

It’s exactly as you describe it. First something happens and then thoughts comment on it like a sports commentator. They’re always a little bit behind the action. And sometimes they add a few stories. And the word “I”.

What exactly is added apart from the word “I” when the thought appears, “I’m tired, my back hurts”?

Love, Christiane

We continued along the Adriatic and we’re in Fano now. On Thursday we’ll continue to Ancona and take the ferry to Patras.

Great! Have a good journey! 🚚

Hi Christiane! Spontaneously I would have answered: Nothing. Apart from the word I, nothing else is added to the experience.

But I looked again in peace and waited until these thoughts appeared. At first, there really is only the thought: experience + I. And if I wait a moment longer, another thought follows. This thought is usually something along the lines of: That’s nice, that’s not nice, that’s annoying, that feels good, and so on.

04.10.2017

Excellent, Steffi! The word I is added and then more words, often evaluations.

What exactly is meant by the word “I”?

When the word “I” appears in thought, see if you can find out what it refers to. Or perhaps it doesn’t refer to anything at all?

Love, Christiane

05.10.2017

Hi Christiane! We’re about to get on the ferry. There won’t be any internet. Hopefully I’ll get back to you the day after tomorrow from Greece with the results of my I-research!

Have a good journey! All the best, Christiane

07.10.2017

Dear Christiane! We’re in Greece now and I have time to be online more often again. Yes, I’ve looked. What does the word I refer to when it appears in thought? I don’t know. It’s always something different. When my hands do something, it’s the hands… When I walk, it’s the legs… Sometimes it’s just some diffuse feeling. Whatever thoughts call I, it can’t be named.

Does the I exist?

There is no I for real. There is no I that directs and controls everything. The word I appears in thoughts. And in language. But I don’t really know who or what it refers to. There is the body. When I see it in the mirror, thoughts think, that’s me. But what I see isn’t an I that directs and controls, thinks or feels. What is the I?

Yes, what is the I – or rather: Is the I?

08.10.2017

After looking at myself in the mirror for quite a while… “I” is the label for the body. So something like a name. Like Steffi. But the body isn’t “the I” that thinks, directs, controls. Nor is it in the body or anywhere else. “The I” doesn’t exist. There seems to be some kind of misunderstanding.

Excellent, Steffi ❤ Who or what recognises that? Have a look. 🙂

Christiane, that’s exactly what has been confusing me. The whole time… Who or what is thinking about all of this? Who or what is looking everywhere for the I? Who or what…? Who or what is writing to you right now? Yes, who or what is now looking for itself…

Exactly, that’s the central question. You can phrase it a little differently: Is there an entity anywhere that looks, thinks, observes? Just look for it as you would look for the dog lead if you couldn’t find it straight away.

10.10.2017

I can’t manage to look for this entity as if I were looking for a dog lead. With the dog lead, I would ask where I last saw it and look in all the places where it could be. So I’d look in the material world. But I can’t find this entity there because it too is only a thought.

Dear Christiane! There is no entity that looks, thinks and observes. There is only looking, thinking and observing. No I think, or I observe. So it’s somehow another “thought entity”. Thinking and observing simply happen, without intention or anyone doing it.

Excellent, Steffi, the observing entity too exists, if at all, only in thoughts.

Do the things that exist only in thoughts exist?

Close your eyes. Imagine a beautiful bunch of delicious grapes. See them lying on the table in front of you. What colour are they? Are any of them rotten? Take the bunch in your hand, can you feel its weight? Now put a grape in your mouth. What does it taste like, sweet, sour, is the skin very thick or just right? Does the grape have seeds?

OPEN YOUR EYES.

Where is the bunch of grapes?

I’ve done this exercise before with strawberries. Unlike back then, though, I now don’t only see the fruit in front of me. I see myself from above sitting at the table and peeling an apple (grapes aren’t really my thing). Somehow I can’t manage to imagine only the apple right now. I see myself cutting the apple into pieces and eating a piece. I also imagine how it tastes. Sour. When I open my eyes, not only is the rest of the apple gone, but I am too. I only imagined both of them. I’ll do the exercise again later. And try to imagine only the apple and eating it.

Was the apple ever there?

Christiane, not for real, only in thoughts.

Yep! Has anything changed in your experience since we started our conversation?

Nothing has changed dramatically. But through looking closely… something that was very blurry before is now completely clear. Like wiping dust off a picture. At the beginning of our conversation, I only had a vague idea of I. Now I know that none of it exists at all. I’m also looking more closely. Gradually finding out what’s real and what isn’t.

Great! What does the word “I” mean?

Nothing, it’s just a name.

11.10.2017

We have names for things that actually exist: dog, truck, beach, and things that exist only in fantasy: tooth fairy, Santa Claus, Mickey Mouse.

Which category does “I” belong to? Does the name refer to anything that actually exists?

There is no I that thinks, directs, has control, decides, that actually exists. It’s only a thought. An invention. When I see my body in the mirror, or rather, when it is seen, thoughts label it I. But that’s only a name too. Like tree, or car… The body really exists and is called I. Without that having any further meaning.

The thing with the body… is only provisional too. 🙂 The time will come, later on the journey, when it becomes clear that it doesn’t exist either.

Here we’re picking apart what is actually experienced and what is added in thought.

You can try this for a day. Whenever you see something, think: colour-image. When you hear something: “sound”. When you touch something: touch (pressure from the seat, for example). When you smell or taste something: “smell”, “taste”. When you think something: “thought”.

Also look to see whether an I is among the things you experience.

I’m curious to see what you discover.

Love, Christiane

Interesting. I thought everything you can perceive with the five senses is real. I can perceive the body with five senses. Unless I close my eyes and try to feel it in the way we did in the body exercise. Then there is no body.

I’ll do the exercise and get back to you this evening.

12.10.2017

Dear Christiane! Yesterday evening we unexpectedly had a visitor. A Greek man we’d never met before. He came by with a bottle of wine and sat down with us.

I did the exercise. It worked best outside by, or in, the sea. It’s difficult to describe what happened. I’ll try. After a while, it somehow became quiet. The thoughts settled down and became fewer and fewer. Through constantly naming and evaluating, thoughts probably put everything that is experienced into a context. And at some point that context was simply gone. It felt like an eternity, but was probably only a few minutes. There was no place and no time anymore. There was only sound and colours… And just like in the body exercise, there was no body either. This time with my eyes open. It was like another world. In which everything was gone, but nothing was missing either. It was only brief. Something happened that ended it.

Today we drove to Olympia and I tried it during the drive. But I couldn’t do it. Probably too many stimuli coming in. A shame, I would have liked to experience it again.

Was there an I among the things? There weren’t any things at all…

Tomorrow I’ll look around Olympia and then we’ll continue on to find another nice place somewhere on the beach.

Greetings from Greece 🙂

Dear Steffi, wow, great! First the visit from the Greek man, and then a visit to the level that is always there, only obscured by all the mental commentary. Yes – there are no things… Time and place belong to the inventions of thought.

I’m looking forward to your next report. ❤

Love, Christiane

P.S. Most of the time it doesn’t work to recreate the same experience. Just be curious about what else might happen 🙂

15.10.2017

Dear Christiane! I’ve repeated the exercise a few more times. But I couldn’t do it. Until I realised that nothing has to be done at all. It’s always there. You just often don’t see it. Looking closely led me there with this too. Whenever one thought goes and before a new thought comes, it can be seen. Like an automatic sliding door that opens and closes. And when it’s open, you can see what’s behind it. Or rather feel it. Often it’s only a very brief moment. Then a new thought comes and it’s gone. So sometimes it can barely be felt or not felt at all. But sometimes the moment lasts a little longer. And then it really is the case that there is only seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling and tasting. No place and no time either. Even the word Now doesn’t really capture it, but comes closest. The next thought, and you’re back in a place, at a particular time. Without thoughts, none of that actually exists. No just now, no in a moment. No good or bad. Thoughts think that’s wonderful!

Greetings from the beach 🏖️

Hey, wonderful, Steffi! ❤ The spaces will become larger on the journey through the fetters, until (whatever you want to call it) this is the basic state that is felt most of the time. Time is also one of the constructs, and so is place.

And you’ve discovered it exactly right. Nothing has to be done. It’s actually a deep relaxation.

Is there an I?

Love, Christiane

16.10.2017

No. There is no I.

Are you 100% sure, do you have any doubts or questions?

I’m 100% sure and I don’t have any doubts anymore. I have lots of questions and somehow none at all. At the beginning, I was unsettled because I couldn’t find an I. I didn’t know what that was supposed to mean. And what a life without an I, or without the idea of an I, would actually look like. At the moment, I’m no longer unsettled. More curious. There was never an I. So there is nothing that would be different now and unsettle me, and at the same time everything is somehow different.

Very nice, Steffi. ❤ Let that sink in for a while. Was there actually a moment when it became clear that there is no I?

And ask any questions that come to mind. 🙂

Love, Christiane

Letting it sink in is good. I want to “consolidate” being without an I. And I want to untangle the web of thoughts that has wrapped reality up like this. Can you help me with that too?

Of course. 🙂

Thank you very much for guiding me. 💐

Yes. Actually, there were even two. And they were very different. The first was searching for the I in the body… Behind the ears and so on… In that brief moment of panic because I couldn’t find the I there… After that, I knew for certain that there was no I for real.

The second time was when I went “through the sliding door”. Then I knew that there was no I at all and there had never been one.

Wonderful, Steffi ❤ The panic can certainly happen. After all, it feels as though we’re losing everything we’ve relied on until now.

I suggest you give yourself a little time to experience life from this new perspective.

While this “update” is being unpacked, you don’t need to worry about it. It happens completely by itself. It tends to interfere if we constantly check what has actually happened now.

Pay attention to the little things. Feel the precision of the movement when you lift a cup of coffee to your mouth. Smell what Lucy smells like when she’s been in the water. Listen to the sounds of chopping vegetables, the symphony of cooking. 🙂

Feel the ground beneath your feet, the touch as you walk through the sand.

Enjoy! ❤

Yes. I’ll now “inevitably” do that.

. 😉 I’ll report back… Thank you again for your guidance ❤️

Steffi, it’s fun working with you! 😃

😘

23.10.2017

Dear Steffi, how are you and how does life feel?

Love, Christiane

25.10.2017

Dear Christiane! It feels good. Difficult to describe. Somehow it’s getting quieter and quieter. It’s not as if everything is suddenly completely different. And yet I keep noticing small changes. Sometimes it’s like observing. And yet much more being “in it”. More and more often, thoughts no longer manage to push you back and forth. As if there were a stop button. I notice where thoughts are taking me, what further thoughts they trigger, and then I can simply stop it. Not always. But more and more often. All the thinking about things is also becoming increasingly pointless. Decisions are suddenly simply there. And good.

26.10.2017

Dear Steffi, so lovely! 🙂 Yes, it gets quieter and quieter, and sometimes thoughts simply take a break. They no longer get fed, they’re no longer given the power they used to have. They’ve been exposed as insubstantial.

And decisions simply appear. Most of the time they’re much better than when our thinking interferes for a long time and discusses the whole thing endlessly.

Was there ever an I in any form?

What made the self illusion seem like a real I? Which experiences reinforced the impression that there was an I?

Love, Christiane

27.10.2017

Hi Christiane! No, there was never an I in any form! 100% sure 🙂

The other two answers had to wait for a while. It’s not possible to “return to a point” at which this illusion still existed. But I think it was simply the thoughts, because they put the word “I” in front of everything that was experienced and done. If you simply leave this word out in thought… there is no I-experience anymore either. Then “I walk”, “I think”, “I…” simply becomes walking, thinking… Reading this now, it seems absurd that this should have been all there was to it. But actually there really were no “experiences that reinforced the impression that there was an I” – not when you look closely – there was only this illusion or misinterpretation of something that is actually only a word.

Isn’t it incredible, Steffi? We simply didn’t look closely. Otherwise it would have been easy to find out that the I exists only as thoughts. 😃

It’s true, it’s not possible to return to the point where the I still seemed to exist. You can never believe in Santa Claus again once you’ve found out that it’s only the neighbour in costume.

Yes, that’s all – and the most important step towards complete awakening. Well done! ❤

There are still quite a few assumptions standing in the way of complete awakening. They’ll become apparent by themselves when they’re ready for you to work on them. This path unfolds by itself. For now, enjoy this I-free state. Old feelings may appear. They were like balloons tied to the string of the self illusion. Now the string has been cut and they can rise and float away. When these feelings appear, simply feel them without making them bigger or smaller – nothing more is needed.

Write from time to time about how you’re doing. If you notice that you’re reacting to situations and want them to be different, or perhaps even a big problem appears that you’d like to get rid of, then it’s time for the next assumption. We believe that there is such a thing as desire and aversion, craving and ill will in traditional Buddhist language, which cause us to do something to get what we want or to get rid of something we don’t want. You can then investigate this assumption. You’ve probably guessed it – desire and aversion don’t really exist either.

All the best, Christiane ☀️☀️☀️

Thank you, dear Christiane, for making this possible for me. Yes, I’ve already come across these feelings. Most of the time they really do float away, disappear again. But some come back again and again and I can already tell that there’s more behind them… but it’s not easy to identify them precisely. I’ll look and then report back 🙂 Thank you very much and have a nice weekend. Sending you sunshine from the Greek beach!

Dear Steffi, you’re very welcome. I’m also really delighted that you’ve seen through the self illusion! 😃

You don’t need to identify the feelings. Often they arose when we didn’t even have words for feelings yet. Breathe softly, feel what’s there, it will dissolve in its own time. Some feelings take longer, some less time. Incidentally, this will continue throughout the entire journey to awakening and even beyond. I have the impression that for some things you really have to be enlightened to dissolve them… 😛

I’m curious to see what will appear 🙂

31.10.2017

Dear Christiane! Not only is all the thinking becoming increasingly pointless, but many words (which are only spoken thoughts) are becoming unnecessary too. Which means that I don’t talk as much (unnecessarily) anymore. The people around me don’t seem to like that very much 🙂 I’m often with people who think a lot about everything and want to talk about it. They think a lot, for example, about the meaning of life and about how they behave in the world and why. Suddenly I hardly have anything to say about it anymore, or my “new perspective” usually isn’t understood, or I can’t explain it very well. Is it the same for you?

Dear Steffi, it’s exactly the same for me. For someone who hasn’t seen through the self illusion, it’s absolutely impossible to understand what life feels like from this perspective. I talk less and less too.

I saw through the self illusion while reading a book – and within 24 hours it was clear to me that there was nobody I could talk to about it. My partner didn’t understand a word, and my Buddhist friends wanted even less to do with it.

That’s why I registered with Liberation Unleashed and got confirmed there so I could join the groups. Liberation Unleashed specialises in this first step, and that’s where I also learned how to guide. Guiding is also a great opportunity for me to talk about it. It’s strange – none of my real-life friends know how I actually experience the world and they wouldn’t be able to understand it either.

Has anything changed in being with your friends because of this?

I’m not really the sociable type anyway. I’m still in touch with a Buddhist friend who has seen a little deeper and can enjoy silence. Otherwise, I’m in contact with my old friends and family, but in a limited way because I can’t talk endlessly about things either. I enjoy short, casual get-togethers, not really more than three hours, and then I’m happy to be on my own again. Fortunately, my partner feels the same way. I most enjoy having deeper conversations with one person.

Has your partner seen through the self illusion too?

No, she has zero interest in it. But our personality types are very similar.

Is your partner interested in it?

The people I’ve met lately like to have deeper conversations with me. Especially about my lifestyle and how it came about. They’re usually very preoccupied with themselves and are somehow searching. But I can’t manage to engage with that anymore. Most of the time, I don’t know how to answer. Slowly I’m noticing that quite a lot has changed after all.

I don’t know whether my husband is interested… Maybe I should ask him 🙂

Yes, it would be worth asking. Does he know what you’ve been doing over the last few weeks? This will continue to change. At some point, the time will come when you’ll be able to say something again. You’ll simply know intuitively what you can say.

Thoughts no longer lead life now. It shifts to intuition.

Yes, I suppose he noticed. But he basically has no idea what it’s about. Until recently, I didn’t know either… And if I had to explain it, I wouldn’t really know how…

Good to know that I’ll have words again soon 🙂

…I’ll just show him our conversation…

That’s a good idea!

I always explain it by saying that we don’t only perceive what we experience, but also the interpretations, and very often we mistake our own interpretations for something real.

For example, the interpretation “I think, experience, feel, decide and act.”

Everyone understands the Santa Claus example too.

Thank you.

You’re welcome, Steffi. The online community means a great deal to me. It’s very precious to me, and you’re part of it. ❤

I feel the same way 🙂

And so I passed through the Gateless Gate, and the journey through the fetters began. It would continue until the winter of 2019. But time didn’t really matter anymore.

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Continue exploring the self illusion

This dialogue shows my own investigation of the First Fetter as it happened between December 2016 and October 2017.

For an introduction to the self illusion and a structured overview of the investigation, continue here:

🔹 Seeing Through the Self Illusion

Further reading

🔹 The Self – The First Fetter

🔹 Doubt – The Second Fetter

🔹 Rites and Rituals – The Third Fetter

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